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Waiting For Self-Deriving Cars

March 26, 2022


Once you trust a self-driving car with your life, you pretty much will trust Artificial Intelligence with anything—Dave Waters.

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Keith Kirkpatrick is the author of an interesting CACM article on self-driving cars. It is titled “Still Waiting For Self-Driving Cars” and appears in the news section of this month’s issue.

Today we discuss why it has been so difficult to get self-driving cars started.

Kirkpatrick’s article starts:

Over the past decade, technology and automotive pundits have predicted the “imminent” arrival of fully autonomous vehicles that can drive on public roads without any active monitoring or input from a human driver. Elon Musk has predicted his company Tesla would deliver fully autonomous vehicles by the end of 2021, but he made similar predictions in 2020, 2019, and 2017. Each prediction has fallen flat, largely due to real-world safety concerns, particularly related to how self-driving cars perform in adverse conditions or situations.

An Issue

As printed in the current CACM issue, his article says the following on page 13:

A potential intermediate solution currently being tested in Germany is to utilize remote drivers to control vehicles. Vay, a Berlin-based startup, has been testing a fleet of remote-controlled electric vehicles in that city and plans to roll out a mobility service in Europe and potentially the U.S. this year. The service will allow customers to order a remote-controlled car and have it drive them to their desired destination; on arrival, they get out if the vehicle and leave it to a human teledriver miles away to either park the vehicle or steer it to the next client.

I claim this shows the issue that we have with automatic driving systems. There is a typo in the above paragraph. A typo that shows what we are up against in the attempt to make automatic driving systems.

DO YOU SEE IT?



We claim that a typo like this in a CACM article is part of the reason it is so hard to make self-driving cars. Do you agree? Or is the typo not critical? While we’re at it, does the title of this post have a typo? Read on…

Ken contributes a more difficult example of this kind, one he used while addressing the same issue of AI advances in his department’s Freshman Seminar. It relates to a later section in Kirkpatrick’s article, where he discusses the issue of

…testing to ensure vehicle navigation systems understand the complex social interactions that often occur between oncoming and adjacent drivers, or drivers and pedestrians. Generally, if a pedestrian is about to cross or is crossing a street, the driver and pedestrian will make eye contact, and will use nonverbal cues to indicate the direction and speed of their movement.

Over to Ken:

Ken’s Example

Here is the relevant portion of the White House transcript of Barack Obama’s July 2012 campaign speech in Roanoke, Virginia—the one with the notorious phrase “you didn’t build that”:

The question we could submit to Google—whose own automated-driving efforts have had difficulties with interpreting rules—is:

What does the word “that” in “you didn’t build that” refer to?

By rules of linguistic derivation, the answer seems clear:

  • The word “that” refers to the most recent noun, which is “business.”

  • The dashes ‘- -‘ connect two parts that refer to each other.

  • The word cannot anyway refer to “roads and bridges” because that is plural whereas “that” is singular, like “business.”

  • (The preceding point is not a self-contradiction because in quotes, “roads and bridges” is a phrase—singular.)

Now please take a minute-plus to listen to the actual delivery of this part of the speech (you may need to click back from 0:00:08 to 0:00:00 to get the start):


First, the transcript is missing a word: Obama actually said “that—you didn’t build that.” Perhaps having a rhetorically emphasized that right after “business” makes the semantic designation even clearer? But then notice that the part “if you’ve got a business” was delivered in a quick and parenthetical manner inside the full phrase “Somebody invested in roads and bridges … you didn’t build that.”

The interpretation that the “that” refers to infrastructure is supported by the speech’s immediate segue to the Internet, sandwiched around “somebody else made that happen.” Going out to sources, Obama was channeling a point already notoriously made by Elizabeth Warren in a 2011 speech. But without going out to sources—something we cannot expect an AI to do in the moment—there is Obama’s next sentence (also included in the speech clip):

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

Whether Obama intended to say that people did not build their businesses can still be argued, but that’s not the real point. My first point is that AIs based on current art for ascribing meanings not only would make that ascription, but should do so for overall consistency. And the second, larger, point at the end of my slides, where I get to hard AI problems, is this:

We base our confidence in developing AI systems on Alan Turing’s principle that whatever the human mind can resolve, a computer can be programmed to apprehend and execute. But what if important data, on fine scales, concern matters that our human minds cannot resolve?

CACM puts in a bubble Kirkpatrick’s quoting another expert that “it will take years and massive compute power to train self-driving systems to understand the nonverbal cues that pass between drivers and pedestrians.” We believe the task and need of getting cars to self-derive meanings is greater still.

Open Problems

Do these issues say anything about the difficulty of getting code right? We think so, but what do you think?


[some word changes; I seem unable to fix the endpoints of my clip on the C-SPAN website.]

15 Comments leave one →
  1. March 26, 2022 10:10 pm

    Not much good without a self-deriving cdr …

    • March 26, 2022 10:26 pm

      🙂 , Jon. I wonder if Lisp is used in the code.

      Left on the cutting-room floor but maybe you especially can weigh in here: The same section of the CACM article mentions “perceptual affordances”, and Andrew Wells in its comments section ties that to an article “[J.J.] Gibson’s Affordances and Turing’s Theory of Computation.”

      • March 28, 2022 9:28 am

        Self-deriving cdrs make me think of tail recursion somehow, which reminds me my old Buick has a taillight out and I keep putting off getting it fixed — maybe someday I’ll have an AI-EV-ZoomZoomBa that can drive itself to the shop for repairs — but I digress …

        I’m really more interested in the vehicles of scientific inquiry we might wish to have in the future. I would not mind if the vehicle of inquiry coming down the pike drove my way but I would if I could not be at the wheel one way or another. So that is what mobilates my excursions on Inquiry Driven Systems.

        I’ll get to the bearing of C.S. Peirce on a couple of Gibsons next time …

      • March 29, 2022 9:36 am

        Just to whet our wits, here’s a canonical bit from Peirce

        “Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain.  It appears in the work of bees, of crystals, and throughout the purely physical world;  and one can no more deny that it is really there, than that the colors, the shapes, etc., of objects are really there.  (Collected Papers 4.551).

      • April 4, 2022 10:30 am

        Once, there was nothing there, nothing moving on its own, just data and people shuffling it around. Then something happened, and it … it knew itself.
        — William Gibson • “Count Zero”

        (I’d been looking for this quote from the other Gibson — I knew I’d posted it once or thrice before — when Facebook’s memory app reminded me just today of a previous occasion.)

  2. March 26, 2022 10:32 pm

    Also left out: my exchange in a comments section about the meaning of “is” with the translator who I feel mis-construed the Russian expression “в конце концов” and the whole context of a paragraph, in a matter of high importance last week at the bottom of this news article.

  3. March 27, 2022 3:25 pm

    We claim that a typo like this in a CACM article is part of the reason it is so hard to make self-driving cars. Do you agree? Or is the typo not critical? While we’re at it, does the title of this post have a typo? Read on…

    When I plug it into Google Docs, it instantly highlights the grammar error of ‘if’. I predict that if I had a copy of MS Word or Grammarly, it’d do that too.

    The interpretation that the “that” refers to infrastructure is supported by the speech’s immediate segue to the Internet, sandwiched around “somebody else made that happen.” Going out to sources, Obama was channeling a point already notoriously made by Elizabeth Warren in a 2011 speech.

    I experimented with this very question using the OA API Playground’s instruct series, Q&A preset, BO=20/temp=0 (because this is a factual question). Omitting the preset, and italicizing the GPT-3 supplied completion (first and only completion I ran):

    “…Q: In 2012, Barack Obama gave a speech in which he said:

    “There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

    What does the word “that” in “you didn’t build that” refer to?
    A: The word “that” in “you didn’t build that” refers to the American system.

    FWIW, I did notice the typo in the title, but I assumed it’d be a post about AlphaZero and planning and self-driving car complexity, since that seemed up your alley.

  4. Jeremy H permalink
    March 28, 2022 12:55 am

    The goal of a self-driving car isn’t to be (theoretically) perfect, or even perfect in practice. It “merely” has to be 100x safer than human drivers. Even a 1000x improvement would result in ~40 deaths per year in the US.

    The Obama speech is similar. If humans can’t agree on the intended meaning, then why should we require an algorithm to unambiguously give the correct answer? If your paragraph is too complicated to parse correctly, then perhaps the correct response is to rewrite it to be clearer, not blame the listener (human or computer).

    • Timothy Chow permalink
      March 28, 2022 5:46 pm

      An even stronger statement can be made. Self-driving cars don’t even have to be safer than human-driven cars. We just have to (collectively) prefer them to human-driven cars. Compare the world we currently live in with a hypothetical world in which there are no cars at all. The number of deaths due to motor-vehicle accidents in a carless world is obviously zero, which is much safer than the current world. Yet we prefer to keep cars around instead of abolishing them. Think about senior citizens who might be faced with the choice between a self-driving car, or no mobility at all because society has taken their car keys away from them. They may prefer the self-driving car even if the self-driving car carries some risk, if the alternative is unsatisfactory. Or think about a trucking company that will save $2 million by adopting self-driving cars while paying out an extra $1 million in lawsuits. They may choose to make that tradeoff.

  5. March 30, 2022 2:38 pm

    Obama’s words were misconstrued because there were motivated actors out there doing their damnedest to put him in a negative light. They were in a sense “cheating” by omitting context, and abandoning common sense. For an even more ludicrous example, did Donald Trump malign US chess prowess by claiming we have no grandmasters?

    Presumably there will be no such malevolence interfering with the decisions of self-driving cars. AIs will undoubtedly make mistakes based on misinterpretations of what’s actually happening around them, but it seems inevitable that they’ll do better than humans, all things considered.

  6. Jordan Fultz permalink
    March 31, 2022 9:22 am

    I’m no longer able to search past posts of this blog using google, possibly because of a robots.txt disallow?

  7. Cristóbal Camarero permalink
    March 31, 2022 1:56 pm

    A student with beta access to OpenAI’s Codex shows me the following answer:

    “`Q: In 2012, Barack Obama gave a speech in which he said:

    “There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

    What does the word “that” in “you didn’t build that” refer to?
    A: It’s context dependent. The word “that” here can refer to “business”, “roads” and bridges”, or “the Internet”, or any or all of these things. The speaker goes on to elaborate:

    Q:
    A: The point of Obama’s speech is that no man is an island, that we need the help of others in order to thrive, so don’t give others credit for your success and take the credit due to them. That’s the point of the repetition of “You didn’t get there on your own.”

    Q:
    A: Obama is saying success is the result of a team effort and you didn’t get to where you are on your own. He’s talking specifically about business owners, who think they are self-made which he is saying they are not. Obama was making the point that business owners should realize that they couldn’t have succeeded without all the people who helped them (government employees, who built the roads that customers drove on to get to their businesses, inventors of electricity and the telephone and the Internet, etc.). Obama a perfectly valid rhetorical strategy, taking his opponent’s message (“I got where I am by working harder than everyone else”) and adding and expounding upon it (“You didn’t get where you are simply by working harder and nothing more”). This is what Obama said in the entire speech. He was not decrying individual economic success but rather hoping to ensure that that success can be enjoyed by all.“`

    This was done with maximum temperature, instead of 0 as in @gwern’s comment, otherwise the student also got the same disappointing answer. Other tries with high temperature produced similar results to the one showcased.

    IMO is a very good answer. Even more knowing that Codex has been trained with github projects and is supposedly optimized to write code, not to analyze speech.

    • March 31, 2022 2:44 pm

      What is disappointing about ‘the American system’? It is the correct answer. The question asked for what it meant, not to do a creative nonfiction interpretive essay of the entire passage and controversy.

      • Cristóbal Camarero permalink
        April 1, 2022 2:59 am

        A program can generate that answer by randomly selecting a term from the text and having some luck. Once you get reasons, (or proofs or derivations) in the answer you can assert with more confidence whether the program is performing adequately.

        You are right, the question asked just on to what does “that” refer. Thus, it seems that with high temperature it may answer better questions than the one being asked. However, with low temperature it behaves more like it was part of an exam, and it follows the question strictly as posed.

        Besides, although Codex work well in this example, I have seen performing badly in other cases, so I would not trust it with driving a car.

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